Discussion:
Michael Moore makeover...
Coy
2007-06-03 19:37:39 UTC
Permalink
what a differance a few letters can make

you can go from this too this

http://www.avp.com/players/profile.jsp?id=5623

Coy Boy

givin ralph a break...
Thomas Vickers
2007-06-03 20:44:13 UTC
Permalink
Html here:
http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/test/TESTS/OneShotFR-TV/

Field Test Report
June 3, 2007

CONDITIONS AND LOCATIONS:
Night temperatures: 46 to 67 F (8 to 19 C)
Location: Sam Houston National Forest
Trip 1: 3 nights
Trip 2: 1 night
Trip 3: 3 nights

Packing:
Normally I just stuff my tent into my pack and don't use a stuff sack. It is
second to go in after my sleeping bag and if the tent has a fly I wrap the
sleeping bag in it.  The Black Diamond OneShot was so small when it is in
its stuff sack, I decided on my first trip that I was going to go ahead and
leave it in there. I think that breaking my own rules paid off this time. 
Five of my seven nights in the OneShot have involved rain and I felt much
better about stuffing the shelter back into its stuff sack if it was damp
rather than straight into my pack. 

Setting it up:
I was hoping that after putting the OneShot up and taking it down repeatedly
that I would develop a system that would make it easier. The bad news is
that so far, I was wrong. My average set up time is about ten minutes and
that is rather on the fast side for this shelter.  What seems like an easy 
job usually becomes a strange and twisted wrestling match between myself,
the interior poles, and the shelter's body.  I don't really think that there
is a fast and easy way to set the OneShot up as long as I worry about
punching a hole in the shelter with the poles. I have learned to take it
slow and just do the best that I can. It may not be perfect, but the shelter
stays up and I am happy.

I have learned a couple of tricks that make setting this shelter up just a
bit easier, but not easy.  The first is that I have given up on trying to
get the poles into the sewn in interior guide loops. These are small loops
of Epic fabric that hang from the interior of the shelter. They are
obviously meant to guide the poles into their proper positions (along with
the hook and loop fasteners), but I can never get the OneShot set up with
the poles in the proper guide loops, so I have stopped trying.  The other
trick involves the pole sack that comes with the OneShot.  Sewn into this
bag is an interior pocket for stakes.  I made the goof of trying to get the
folded poles out of the pole sack with the stakes in the interior pocket.  I
am pretty sure that it is impossible after attempting to do so for about
five minutes in the rain. Now I simply dump all the stakes out of the
interior pocket and the pull the poles out. Faster, easier, and much less
frustrating for me, especially when I know the next step is getting the
poles assembled and into the shelter.

Getting in and out:
The door on the OneShot is great. It unzips the entire side of the shelter
and there is plenty of room to crawl in. I want to emphasize the crawling
part. I have to get down on my knees and crawl inside, then turn and zip the
door closed.  This really isn't a complain since I have to crawl into almost
all of my back packing tents. The only problem I have with this involves
getting low enough not to bump the awning that sticks out a bit over the
door. Bumping the awning can have bad consequences, especially when there is
rain involved.  When getting into or out of the OneShot I have found that it
is best to shake the tent rather heavily so that any water that has built up
along the top can run off. I found this out one morning when I did not shake
the shelter (by pushing on the roof from inside) before I unzipped the door
and exited. There was water in the tent and on myself when I bumped against
the OneShot as I crawled out.  I made the same mistake as I entered the
OneShot later in the day. So now I have a simple "shake the tent first"
philosophy when it comes to getting into or out of the OneShot in moist
conditions.

Now I'm in:
My first three nights in the tent were pretty amazing. I wrote my initial
report posted it and headed out to the Sam Houston National forest.  The
first three nights included at least 4 in (15 cm) of heavy rain.  As is my
normal practice (and because I had no time) I did not seam seal the OneShot
before I hit the trail, despite expecting rain on this trip.

I settled into the OneShot for the evening after heating and preparing my
dinner.  With no real vestibule to cook under, I had to don my rain gear and
cook in the rain. This doesn't bother me, but it did mean that I had a
bigger decision to make about where to keep my pack.  I gave in and emptied
the pack contents into the OneShot and put the pack itself under my feet. 
It was a bit cramped inside, especially because my boots had to come in as
well, but I made due.  Being able to sit up and eat was a very nice thing
(even if I was hunched over) at this point, but the night was still young. 

When I finally settled in to sleep, I made sure the window and vent were
zipped closed because I was afraid of the wind blowing rain inside the
shelter.  I had probably been reading for about forty five minutes when I
discovered something interesting.  A seam near my head, where the door
zipper attached to the tent body was leaking.  It was raining pretty hard
and I could actually see the water beading up on the stitching and then
running down the tent body.  At first I started to freak out, but I also
noticed that the water was pooling in one of the reinforced corner pockets
where the poles snap into place. I stuffed my pack towel into the corner and
went back to reading and eventually to sleep.  In the morning I was still
dry, but the pack towel was soaked.  I had to wring it out once I got up and
moving for the day. 

The rain didn't reappear for a few hours so I got a chance to dry the
OneShot off a bit and head further down the trail. I finally found the
campsite I wanted and this is where I spent the next two nights.  When the
rain came back, so did the leak, so I kept the pack towel stuffed in that
corner of the tent.  I just wrung it out in the morning and let it dry as
much as it could between rain showers.

I also noticed that the Epic fabric of the shelter doesn't seem to really
get wet. Water stands and beads on it and can be shaken off. I still had to
pack it into its stuff sack while damp because I couldn't seem to shake all
the water off the shelter in the morning.  This wasn't a huge issue since I
had used the stuff sack, but I quickly figured out that using the stuff sack
is a must if I expect wet conditions.
 
Final thoughts:
I spent four more nights in the OneShot shelter. Three of these nights
included even more rain, which causes me to fear that I have found a real
rain magnet. The leak continued, so now I am going to research seam sealing
the OneShot. I can not find instructions with the materials that came with
the shelter, so I will go online and try and figure the procedure out. I
don't consider the leaking seam a real issue though. I my opinion if only
one small section of seam leaks, then Black Diamond did a pretty good job of
assembling the OneShot. The best news is that I can fix it, if I can figure
out the seam sealing process.

After my first three nights in the OneShot I discovered that despite its
appearances, it is a bit snug for me. If I lie on my back and stretch out,
my head and feet brush up against the opposite ends of the tent. This isn't
too much of an issue since I prefer to sleep on my side with my legs bent,
but for anyone approaching 6 feet (1.8 meters) in height or more, it could
be. Throw in my boots, food, and pack, and the arrangements get even more
cramped. I still think this is an acceptable trade off for the shelter's
weight and it won't be as much as an issue when I venture into areas where I
need to hang my food outside the shelter and when there is no rain forcing
me to bring my pack into the tent with me.

I can sit up in the OneShot, but only if I a)hunch my shoulders/head over
and b) sit facing the door. If I try and sit hunched over facing the ends of
the shelter, then my shoulders rub against the walls of the OneShot.  I don'
find this overly disturbing because when I consider the weight of this
shelter, there has to be some sort of trade off.  My only concern has been
if rubbing against the walls of the shelter will cause water to wet through
the fabric and get me wet.  I haven't tested this out yet (despite the
rain), but if I get a chance a I will.

I have not seen or dealt with condensation on the interior of the OneShot
yet and I think this may have something to do with the relatively low (for
Texas) night time temperatures. My first three nights I kept the windows
shut to keep rain out and warmth in, but for the remaining nights I had to
keep the windows open. I would get warm in the tent, then open windows, and
then the the temperatures seemed to adjust to a comfortable level for me. On
my last night I tested just how much of a variance in temperatures there was
by using a thermometer inside and outside the tent. I started off with my
reading of the interior of the tent with the windows shut. The thermometer
read 80 F () and I was rather humid and warm, so I zipped open both of the
windows. When I woke up about 45 minutes later, the thermometer read 76 F
(). The next time I woke, I checked the interior temperature (76 F/ ) and
the put the thermometer outside. Within twenty minutes I got a reading of
67 F() outside the tent.

I was impressed since this seemed to be what happened on the prior night
when I didn't keep a close tab on the temperature.

Overall, I like the OneShot shelter. It provides cover from the elements at
a great pack weight. While I would prefer a vestibule or awning that gives
me more cover for gear storage or cooking, the lack of one doesn't kill my
impressions of this shelter. One thing that I do like a lot about the
OneShot is how easy it is to move once it is set up. Even with a sleeping
bag, sleeping pad, and pillow in the inside, it is easy for me to pick the
entire shelter up and move it to a better spot when or if I need to. That
is something I know I am going enjoy when I visit areas that have less than
favorable camp sites and a move might be necessary.
Please check back in August for my long term report on the Black Diamond
OneShot shelter.
Shane Steinkamp
2007-06-01 22:26:13 UTC
Permalink
ALL TESTERS PLEASE NOTE:

The word 'EDIT' in a subject line is a reserved word.

It is reserved for the actual edit of a report, and it may also be used in
any subsiquent discussion of the editing of the report. Please do not use
the 'FOR EDIT' tag. The correct tag is POST: IR, POST: FR, or POST: LTR.

Thank you for your consideration in this matter.

Future violations will be referred to the Spanking Comittee.

Shane
List Admin
Thomas Vickers
2007-06-03 22:56:42 UTC
Permalink
Better tell AP to get out the Cat - O - 9 tails.
Looks like I need a whipping

TV
_____________________________________

There is the right way, the wrong way, and the Jack Bauer way. It's
basically the right way but faster and more deaths.
Leesa J
2007-06-04 09:23:51 UTC
Permalink
I'm in charge of the whippings on this side of the globe! Sorry

Leesa
Post by Thomas Vickers
Better tell AP to get out the Cat - O - 9 tails.
Looks like I need a whipping
TV
_____________________________________
There is the right way, the wrong way, and the Jack Bauer way. It's
basically the right way but faster and more deaths.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Edward Ripley-Duggan
2007-06-05 15:29:12 UTC
Permalink
Hello Tom,

Your edit follows. I have a few comments as well as edits. They are
not meant to be heavy-handed, but they do express certain concerns
that I have with certain aspects of the FR.

Best,

Ted.
<http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/test/TESTS/OneShotFR-TV/>http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/test/TESTS/OneShotFR-TV/
Field Test Report
June 3, 2007
Night temperatures: 46 to 67 F (8 to 19 C)
Location: Sam Houston National Forest
Trip 1: 3 nights
Trip 2: 1 night
Trip 3: 3 nights
.
The door on the OneShot is great. It unzips the entire side of the shelter
and there is plenty of room to crawl in. I want to emphasize the crawling
part. I have to get down on my knees and crawl inside, then turn and zip the
door closed. This really isn't a complain
### EDIT: complaint
since I have to crawl into almost
all of my back packing
### EDIT: backpacking
tents. The only problem I have with this involves
getting low enough not to bump the awning that sticks out a bit over the
door. Bumping the awning can have bad consequences, especially when there is
rain involved. When getting into or out of the OneShot I have found that it
is best to shake the tent rather heavily so that any water that has built up
along the top can run off. I found this out one morning when I did not shake
the shelter (by pushing on the roof from inside) before I unzipped the door
and exited. There was water in the tent and on myself when I bumped against
the OneShot as I crawled out. I made the same mistake as I entered the
OneShot later in the day. So now I have a simple "shake the tent first"
philosophy when it comes to getting into or out of the OneShot in moist
conditions.
My first three nights in the tent were pretty amazing. I wrote my initial
report posted it and headed out to the Sam Houston National forest.
### EDIT: Forest.
The
first three nights included at least 4 in (15 cm) of heavy rain. As is my
normal practice (and because I had no time) I did not seam seal the OneShot
before I hit the trail, despite expecting rain on this trip.
I settled into the OneShot for the evening after heating and preparing my
dinner. With no real vestibule to cook under, I had to don my rain gear and
cook in the rain. This doesn't bother me, but it did mean that I had a
bigger decision to make about where to keep my pack. I gave in and emptied
the pack contents into the OneShot and put the pack itself under my feet.
It was a bit cramped inside, especially because my boots had to come in as
well, but I made due.
### EDIT: do
Being able to sit up and eat was a very nice thing
(even if I was hunched over) at this point, but the night was still young.
When I finally settled in to sleep, I made sure the window and vent were
zipped closed because I was afraid of the wind blowing rain inside the
shelter. I had probably been reading for about forty five minutes when I
discovered something interesting. A seam near my head, where the door
zipper attached to the tent body was leaking. It was raining pretty hard
and I could actually see the water beading up on the stitching and then
running down the tent body. At first I started to freak out, but I also
noticed that the water was pooling in one of the reinforced corner pockets
where the poles snap into place. I stuffed my pack towel into the corner and
went back to reading and eventually to sleep. In the morning I was still
dry, but the pack towel was soaked. I had to wring it out once I got up and
moving for the day.
The rain didn't reappear for a few hours so I got a chance to dry the
OneShot off a bit and head further down the trail. I finally found the
campsite I wanted and this is where I spent the next two nights. When the
rain came back, so did the leak, so I kept the pack towel stuffed in that
corner of the tent. I just wrung it out in the morning and let it dry as
much as it could between rain showers.
I also noticed that the Epic fabric of the shelter doesn't seem to really
get wet. Water stands and beads on it and can be shaken off. I still had to
pack it into its stuff sack while damp because I couldn't seem to shake all
the water off the shelter in the morning. This wasn't a huge issue since I
had used the stuff sack, but I quickly figured out that using the stuff sack
is a must if I expect wet conditions.
I spent four more nights in the OneShot shelter. Three of these nights
included even more rain, which causes me to fear that I have found a real
rain magnet. The leak continued, so now I am going to research seam sealing
the OneShot. I can not
### EDIT: cannot
find instructions with the materials that came with
the shelter, so I will go online and try and figure the procedure out. I
don't consider the leaking seam a real issue though.
### COMMENT: What follows is a fairly strong comment; consider it
close to an edit. My understanding is that the OneShot instructions
recommend seam-sealing, and that sealant is supplied, a pretty strong
hint. While it's perfectly OK to see how a tent performs without
sealing (I like to do this too), there's no way that any leakage
problem due to lack of sealing can be fairly considered a fault. When
this happens, I note the locations, and pays especial attention to
those spots when I seal. That last sentence above, and the emphasis
throughout on attempts to keep dry, could easily be construed by a
reader as a criticism of the performance. Could you reword or qualify
the pertinent sections so that it's quite clear that you aren't
indicting the tent for leaking, please?
I my
### EDIT: In my
opinion if only
one small section of seam leaks, then Black Diamond did a pretty good job of
assembling the OneShot. The best news is that I can fix it
### COMMENT: see above. "Fix" is inappropriate. It ain't broke,
unless it leaks after you seam-seal it.
, if I can figure
out the seam sealing process.
After my first three nights in the OneShot I discovered that despite its
appearances, it is a bit snug for me. If I lie on my back and stretch out,
my head and feet brush up against the opposite ends of the tent. This isn't
too much of an issue since I prefer to sleep on my side with my legs bent,
but for anyone approaching 6 feet (1.8 meters) in height or more, it could
be. Throw in my boots, food, and pack, and the arrangements get even more
cramped. I still think this is an acceptable trade off
### EDIT: trade-off (this is almost always hyphenated)
for the shelter's
weight and it won't be as much as an issue when I venture into areas where I
need to hang my food outside the shelter and when there is no rain forcing
me to bring my pack into the tent with me.
I can sit up in the OneShot, but only if I a)hunch my shoulders/head over
and b) sit facing the door. If I try and sit hunched over facing the ends of
the shelter, then my shoulders rub against the walls of the OneShot. I don'
### EDIT: don't
find this overly disturbing because when I consider the weight of this
shelter, there has to be some sort of trade off.
### EDIT: see above
My only concern has been
if rubbing against the walls of the shelter will cause water to wet through
the fabric and get me wet. I haven't tested this out yet (despite the
rain), but if I get a chance a I will
### EDIT: ...if I get a chance I will.
### COMMENT: Have you not accidentally done so during the rainy use?
I wonder if you might have some preliminary sense of whether this is an issue?
.
I have not seen or dealt with condensation on the interior of the OneShot
yet and I think this may have something to do with the relatively low (for
Texas) night time temperatures.
### COMMENT: Maybe, but it could have something to do with the
breathability of Epic, too. I would certainly suggest that you
mention this as a possible factor.
My first three nights I kept the windows
shut to keep rain out and warmth in, but for the remaining nights I had to
keep the windows open. I would get warm in the tent, then open windows, and
then the the
### EDIT: lose one "the"
temperatures seemed to adjust to a comfortable level for me. On
my last night I tested just how much of a variance in temperatures there was
by using a thermometer inside and outside the tent. I started off with my
reading of the interior of the tent with the windows shut. The thermometer
read 80 F ()
### EDIT: don't forget conversion
and I was rather humid and warm, so I zipped open both of the
windows. When I woke up about 45 minutes later, the thermometer read 76 F
().
### EDIT: likewise here...
The next time I woke, I checked the interior temperature (76 F/ ) and
the put the thermometer outside. Within twenty minutes I got a reading of
67 F()
### EDIT... and here.
outside the tent.
I was impressed since this seemed to be what happened on the prior night
when I didn't keep a close tab on the temperature.
Andrew Priest
2007-06-14 14:50:28 UTC
Permalink
Hi TV and Ted

I am slowly catching up again. Has this been sorted to your mutual
satisfaction?

Regards
Andrew, sir


-----Original Message-----
find instructions with the materials that came with the shelter, so I
will go online and try and figure the procedure out. I don't consider
the leaking seam a real issue though.
### COMMENT: What follows is a fairly strong comment; consider it close to
an edit. My understanding is that the OneShot instructions recommend
seam-sealing, and that sealant is supplied, a pretty strong hint. While it's
perfectly OK to see how a tent performs without sealing (I like to do this
too), there's no way that any leakage problem due to lack of sealing can be
fairly considered a fault. When this happens, I note the locations, and pays
especial attention to those spots when I seal. That last sentence above, and
the emphasis throughout on attempts to keep dry, could easily be construed
by a reader as a criticism of the performance. Could you reword or qualify
the pertinent sections so that it's quite clear that you aren't indicting
the tent for leaking, please?
Thomas Vickers
2007-06-14 16:12:41 UTC
Permalink
Yeah.
I was trying to do that to begin with, but I went ahead and reworded it to
make it more clear.

TV

Edward Ripley-Duggan
2007-06-05 14:55:00 UTC
Permalink
Hello,

I've taken to relying on Bridget for updates about ORs to edits. Is
the program not being run as regularly, or is it down?

Best,

Ted.
j***@rockwellcollins.com
2007-06-05 17:45:57 UTC
Permalink
I think she only performs when Shane asks her to, and although he hasn't
said it, I think Shane is extremely busy at the moment and thus not
commanding her as often. Seems like there was an update on Monday
though... or maybe it was over the weekend.

Jet
Post by Edward Ripley-Duggan
Hello,
I've taken to relying on Bridget for updates about ORs to edits. Is
the program not being run as regularly, or is it down?
Best,
Ted.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenn K.
2007-06-06 03:22:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@rockwellcollins.com
I think she only performs when Shane asks her to
Don't all women do that?

Jenn K.
Shane Steinkamp
2007-06-05 15:09:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jenn K.
Post by j***@rockwellcollins.com
I think she only performs when Shane asks her to
Don't all women do that?
Jenn K.
Hardly...

Shane
Shane Steinkamp
2007-06-06 03:44:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@rockwellcollins.com
I think she only performs when Shane asks her to, and although he hasn't
said it, I think Shane is extremely busy at the moment and thus not
commanding her as often. Seems like there was an update on Monday
though... or maybe it was over the weekend.
That's the case. BridGeT only runs an update on my command - and in order
for that to happen I have to do all the input first. Tonight was an update
night, except that Virginia's dance review was tonight, which put me really
late. I have to get up at 5 to start <insert long whine here>...and so I'll
get an update processed tomorrow afternoon or tomorrow evening at the
latest. Sorry for the delay.

Shane
Shane Steinkamp
2007-06-01 22:18:54 UTC
Permalink
Wrong forum, Coy...

Shane
List Admin
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